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The Dirty Sixth Chamber
The Dirty Sixth Chamber
The Syncopated Soul of Marcus Amaker's Spoken Rhythms
As Charleston's inaugural Poet Laureate, Marcus Amaker's voice is a blend of melody and activism, resonating in the classrooms and on the stage. My wife, an English teacher, witnessed the profound impact of his visit to her school, as students connected with his fusion of poetry and hip-hop. Throughout our conversation, Marcus shares heartfelt congratulations on my health recovery, gently reminding us of the importance of self-care and the healing power of art. His insights into the use of metaphor to tackle topics like gentrification reveal not only his creative genius but also his dedication to amplifying the strength and joy within black culture.
Have you ever considered just how closely intertwined your identity, art, and activism can be? Marcus takes us through his personal journey, from confronting a speech impediment to embracing it as a unique aspect of his linguistic artistry. Together, we examine the relationship between art and resistance, how one's creative process can be both cathartic and a subtle form of protest. His stories of engaging with youth through poetry programs illuminate the transformative role of artists as mentors, and his advice for aspiring poets reflects his belief in the power of authenticity over external validation.
Stay tuned as Marcus Amaker offers us a glimpse into the rhythmic synergy of poetry and music, the undeniable connection of spoken word art to hip-hop's storytelling, and even a touch of nostalgia with the Casio SK-1. He also teases an upcoming opera debut and his latest publication, "Hold What Makes You Whole," a loving homage to his great aunt Ruth. Transport yourself into Marcus's world, where every verse, beat, and brushstroke contributes to the rich tapestry of our cultural narrative. It's an episode that promises not just to inspire but to challenge you to see the arts as a vessel for change and a reflection of our collective human experience.
Links for Marcus:
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https://www.youtube.com/@marcusamaker/featured
https://tapeloop.bandcamp.com/
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I remember when love was an elusive spider, an intruder that kept trying to creep into my life, crawling between the cracks of hardwood floors before disappearing into the shadows of sleepless nightmares. I spent restless years trapped by distraction, haunted by a thing I could not catch, but secretly wanting a tarantula to come Unannounced and shake me awake.
Speaker 2:Well, ladies and gents, welcome to Season two, episode two of the Dirty Six Chamber podcast. I'm your host, Rhyme the old man, and with me today, you know, I have a special guest who I feel, personally, is smooth with words, as he may be with a lightsaber, right, and his name is correct me if I'm wrong, if I say this incorrectly Marcus Amaker, Amaker, Amaker, there we go. So again, you heard the chocolate velvety voice, Right? We wife is an English teacher at the high school level and one day she came home more excited than usual. Now, you know, I got always ask when she walks in the house like that. So I said, hey, what's going on? She said today, you know, we had the pleasure of having a guest presenter at the school, and he's a spoken word artist. And you know, initially I was like, okay, how awesome could this guy be if she walks in the house and she's more excited about that than I've ever seen her about anything else. So she says, look, babe, I need you to listen to this guy. I think he would like.
Speaker 2:He's right down your alley of what you consider realness when it comes to a connection to the hip hop culture, spoken word poetry. You know, for those that don't understand, we're not talking. You know the Dobie Gillis scene, or the snapping of the fingers. You know, I know that's what the image is for most of you guys the snapping of the fingers and all. I know. That's what the image is for most of you guys. I think it's a deeper rooted connection between the speaker that's delivering it and the actual piece. So we're going to find out a lot about that. So she told me about it. I listened and I think which one was it? I believe it was the one where you said it was the wordplay, said it was the. Is it Wordplay, Wordplay? Poets are superheroes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, wordplay.
Speaker 2:I listened to two of them, but Wordplay, I mean, I was just blown away by it and I told her right there at the moment. I said you know what I got to get this guy on the show? So he's here today and let me just give you and this is an antidote, and let me just give you, uh, and this is an antidote, this is real stuff. These are facts that I'm about to give you, guys. He is a man of many talents, wears the hats of husband, dad, self-proclaimed music nerd and star wars fanatic, each done with equal aplomb. Now he's not just content with conquering the galaxy. That is far, far, far away.
Speaker 2:He served as Charleston South Carolina's first that's right, I said first poet laureate, weaving poetic magic from the 2016 year to 2022. But that's not it, folks. That was just the beginning. That's not it, folks. That was just the beginning. He's also an Academy of American Poets fellow, a graphic design virtuoso, a musician and even an opera libertist. Now, in the words of the immortal Big Red from Five Heartbeats, what can't this guy do? I haven't seen him pilot the next wing yet, but who knows what the future holds? So grab your favorite beverage, kick back and prepare to be mesmerized as he shares insights on his incredible journey as both a poet, performer and also. How are you, marcus, and would you mind sharing some brief words with the listeners before we get started?
Speaker 1:Sure, one thing I do want to say before we start is congratulations to you for finding your self-care routine and for yeah, you know, recovering after your health scare. So I just want to say that, because that is no small feat, so you need to. Yeah, I'm glad that that has happened and, yes, I'm excited to be in this moment with you. I think I'm on sensory overload in this cool room here, so I've got to try to focus, but I am excited to be here. Awesome.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome, thank you. Well, listeners, we are going to, you know, we're going to do the standard format, where, of course, you know what everybody looks forward to is the, the episode Icebreaker. We'll do that. We're going to listen to a few of his pieces, you know, talk and find out a little bit more about Marcus and what brings him to the show today. And then we were going to close with his call to action and, hopefully, an impromptu delivery of one of his pieces, and then he's going to give you, uh, links to where you can find his material, and it's plenty out there, folks, again, this guy's, he's a true renaissance man. When I say he can do it, he has done it. So, um, with that, we're going to jump right into.
Speaker 2:What some people consider their favorite part of this show, other than the material, is the icebreaker. And I did warn him before he came over. I said we were going to do a game of something, but I want to bring up a quote from one of your past interviews. You said, and I quote when I grow up, I want to be. Hold on, let me, I want to get it right. He said when I grow up, I want to be a rock star like Prince. Talk to me about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was 10 years old when I think the magnitude of what that man was doing hit me. So that was in 1986. And I definitely felt like he was on some different level, on like a different planet. It almost seemed like and what was key for me as a young black kid who likes to make art that it seemed like it was approachable. It seemed like you could do it too, you know, because on the back of every album was, you know, written, produced, recorded, arranged by Prince. Amazing.
Speaker 1:Now, obviously he was. I think he was really putting a little bit more shine because there's a lot of folks that worked for him and did some work. But it really started in his brain. And so for me, being that young, seeing all of that on the back of an album and all these amazing songs, I would look at the back of other albums and all these names are on it and on the back of Prince's album it's just Prince, you know. Of Prince's album is just Prince, you know. So I'm like, oh okay, so he's just doing that himself. So I started to make music at that age and I had a little tape deck and I recorded songs and stuff. And that was really biggest revelation for me is that, oh, you can do this too.
Speaker 1:And of course, back then there wasn't social media or doing it for likes or for awards it was just for the, for the sheer, just joy being in the moment very organic, yeah, so that's how I approach things now. Now, obviously, things have changed as an audience has come to my work, but I still have those moments where I'm like i'm'm making this for myself, like this is just for me and other folks happen to listen to it.
Speaker 1:So, but anyway, but Prince, I like the way that he played with gender. I like the way that he played with musical styles. I like that. He was just so confident.
Speaker 1:There was a lot of interviews I would watch and he would talk about how he, when he was younger, he would practice interviews in the mirror and all this and I'm like he was just a man dedicated to his work. Now, on some level, that was what killed him. Um, but also, um, he was able, with that uh, energy, he was able to globally change the energy of the world. Like it was really a fantastic thing. So what's interesting for me now is that, with this age because I'm 47 now and I find that I don't listen to him that much anymore, which is kind of an interesting thing, because that was my whole life like every, I would just buy all of the stickers, all the shirts, the socks. I mean all of the stickers, all the shirts, the socks, I mean all of it. Like I remember there was a cologne in 2016 and I got some of that, like I was just obsessed with it.
Speaker 1:I think that he needed, in a weird way, for a lot of us, he needed to sort of drop his body for us to sort of move on. Got it In a weird way and I laugh, but I just I feel like he was smart enough to even know that. You know, because he talked about he's like yeah, when I'm done with this experience, there will be the next, there will be the next. He's saying about that. So that awareness, I think, is really um key and I think that he was a big gift for a lot of us, especially black folks. He was a big uh, he was a gift you know for us, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:so, on that note, today's icebreaker well, not today. This episode's icebreaker is going to be Prince-centric, okay.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:We'll see what happens. You know, the name of the game for this one is Guess the Prince Song, and what I have done is I've sampled some of the Prince music in reverse. Okay, all right, and I want to see if you're able to guess what that reverse sample is Beautiful. And then we'll play it to see if you're correct. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:And then it'll be three opportunities to do that, and then I have a bonus question that I'm going to ask you, and then too, I should a bonus question that I'm going to ask you, and so um, and then too, I should say as well, I um, and probably one of the biggest fans you'll meet of, like his later period as well.
Speaker 1:Like the stuff. Um, um. Yeah, plectrum Electrum came out in 2014, I believe, or 2013. And that's one of his best albums. Best album. So, like I've listened to so much stuff, so I'm excited to see what, okay, what, what choices you have and and to the key in on that.
Speaker 2:And you're right, a real fan of prince and his works would have listened to his entire catalog.
Speaker 1:It's all good. You know some of it is a little yeah, but it was prince yeah, it was prince, yeah, right.
Speaker 2:So here we go, Starting off the icebreaker to get us ready for the episode.
Speaker 1:We'll go with the first selection here that's 1999. Yeah, that's 1999. That's 1999? Okay, well, let's see.
Speaker 2:Let's 1999. Yeah, that's 1999. That's 1999? Okay, let's see, let's see.
Speaker 1:Okay, yep, there you go, yep 1999.
Speaker 2:Okay, yep, all right, all right, okay, let's go to the next one. I'm going to get him with this one right here. Oh, that's Purple Rain. Yeah, who says it's Purple Rain? Let me see, let me see what happens. If this is really Purple Rain. I believe, so Let me see what happens If this is really Purple.
Speaker 1:Rain. I believe so, and I've been wrong about a lot of things. There we go, yep.
Speaker 2:Alright, alright, he's 2-2-4-3.
Speaker 1:Okay okay, alright, give me some hard stuff, bro. Alright, come on 1999, purple Rain Come on.
Speaker 2:Here we go, here we go. Give me a B-side. He'll never get this one right here okay.
Speaker 1:I believe that's. I Would Die For you. Oh wait, thank you, buddy. Oh no, no, never mind. No, that's Little Red Corvette. That's Little Red Corvette, let's see. Let's see if that's what it. No, that's Little Red Corvette. That's Little Red Corvette. Let's see if that's what it is. Yeah, that's Little Red Corvette. Give me a B-side, bro. I didn't wanna.
Speaker 2:I didn't wanna make it too hard, but I see I should've came with some B-side Give me something from art Art official age.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, wow, see art official age. Wow, wow, ridiculous yeah.
Speaker 2:See, I should have. I should have went that route. I wanted to throw some softball pitches in there, but next time I'm coming with the heat. So the bonus question is can you name the Minnesota Lake that Apollonia supposedly jumped in to purify herself for Prince in the movie Purple Rain?
Speaker 1:I will probably pronounce this incorrectly, but it's Lake Minnetonka.
Speaker 2:Boom. A hundred percent. Is that how you pronounce it? That's it, minnetonka. Yeah, minnetonka, exactly how I spelled it.
Speaker 1:It didn't sound right in my head, minnetonka.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly how I spelled it. Man, you are a prince. That sounds right in my head Minnetonka, yeah exactly how I spell man.
Speaker 1:You are Prince Jimmy Chunga. Yeah, no, but I was curious, like, so, prince to me is who to you, Like, who is your inspiration? For me it would be RZA RZA. Okay, rza, straight from the woods. Oh word, all right.
Speaker 2:RZA, because I really consider him a like, much like yourself, a renaissance man when it comes to cultivating hip hop. Yeah, he's in a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he has done a lot. He came into hip hop with the other members of Wu-Tang when for me it was kind of still stagnant and trying to find its way. So like the golden era of hip hop for me, when Wu-Tang dropped, protect your neck and no one knew who these guys were, but they had such a different sound that you you couldn't help but be a fan, you know so that's beautiful yeah, rza, I mean all his collective works.
Speaker 2:You know the stuff that people wouldn't know about. You know his books that he's written, the Tao of Wu um, just getting a peek inside his mind. I would love to get five minutes of interview time with him, I mean I got my questions ready for him, you're ready, you know it's um just one of those things.
Speaker 1:Put that out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's just one of those things that, yeah, and I now understand your question he is to me. What prince is to you? Yeah, okay, yeah, uh, yeah, if you look over there, you know I'm in the beat production I do write my own rhymes as well, and you know. But he's an inspiration that I think he looked at, and it was just one. I don't know if you ever saw the Hulu series, for Wu-Tang Saga I heard about it, but I never.
Speaker 1:I didn't take the time.
Speaker 2:It was just one episode where they're like they were trying to tell the viewer this is how RZA's brain works when it comes to making music, and it was just. It was very visual and just to see that now it explained a lot to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I believe Prince was he's just. I mean, what instrument could he not play? Yeah, you know when it came to arranging music. What could he not do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because there were classical albums.
Speaker 1:There was an album in 1998 called the Kama Sutra Suite, which was a classical record, and I have a lot of jazz records that he did as well. Like it's just, yeah, it's just, he was music, you know, and I feel that with RZA too, Like nobody would be surprised if RZA did a jazz album they would be like okay, that's the next thing he was supposed to do you know it's like just like, just like, andre, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:I feel like they have no wheelhouse yeah, you know, yeah, that's a beautiful thing. So with that man you are a Prince fan yeah, I am okay, I am okay.
Speaker 1:Poets are superheroes. We have a god-like grasp of language and the power to transform any emotion into alliteration. We sit with sadness until it spins out of silence onto paper. We craft confessional poems with the spark of a metaphor and the speed of a comet. We are saviors of sonnets, protectors of expression. If there is no answer, we write down the question. Poets are rappers. Sometimes we'll rhyme in standard time. Every other line is a rhythmic sound will rhyme in standard time. Every other line is a rhythmic sound. We'll bring you in with the stroke of a pen and make you believe. Every word is profound. You know what's funny about hearing that is that I read that poem so differently now.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:And I've taught myself when I write a thing, because when I wrote that poem, I was very excited to just get it out. I'm like, oh, I'm just to just get it out. I'm like, oh, I'm just gonna get it out, it's, it's done, I'm gonna do it. And now I've changed up the poem so much so I think I'm gonna do another recording of it for for YouTube, because I feel like that's like the baby version of it. Right, right, yeah, so like, but but I honor that version of it yeah, that's.
Speaker 2:It was very um for me when I listened to it initially, like I. It was the day that my wife came on and spoke very highly of you. Yeah, I was blown away.
Speaker 1:Nice. Thank you, brother, you know I mean, it was just.
Speaker 2:It's one of those things. Again, I looked at the movie Love Jones when it first came out yeah, love Jones, you know, and there's a scene where Larenz Tate is up on stage and he's delivering a poem for Nina and very articulate Whoever wrote the material for the movie. But I think for him to deliver something like that today it wouldn't have the audience that I think were. I think if you would have did wordplay even back then. It was a, it was very descriptive of you know, it was the early stages of hip hop, it was so that piece about poets are rappers, you know what I'm saying and just the things that were going on in the world at that point. You know it was very, it had a connection to it. So all of it is timeless, thank you, you know. So for me wordplay is my favorite word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wordplay is my favorite, thank you.
Speaker 2:So, on that note, please give us a single sentence describing who you are as a spoken word.
Speaker 1:Artist slash poet I am a spirit in drag.
Speaker 2:I like that.
Speaker 1:That's my sentence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that because I feel like wherever the spirit takes me, I will go. I don't necessarily feel in control of it, and it's a lovely thing to play with because inspiration will come at any time. I'll be on a bike ride. I bike ride a lot and that's when a lot of poems come. So I'm like, oh, I got to stop on the side of the road and jot this thing down, or I could be up all night, you know, working on a beat or something.
Speaker 1:So I just the reason I say spirit and drag, because I feel like we are all that, you know we, there's more to us than the skin. I guess that comes from Yoda, but but I definitely believe that whatever it is that is moving the muse, I follow it, you know. So I am a vessel for that. So it's less about my mind and more about where the spirit takes me. You know, because I yeah, I mean, I love, um, heavy metal music, I love punk rock music, I love classical music. So, like, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll try, I'll try that too. And again, you see sort of where the line comes from. I mean, when I see Prince doing that as a kid I'm like oh, that's possible.
Speaker 1:I can do that too. So that's how I approach the music a lot and I approach my work.
Speaker 2:So do you think having a very eclectic taste in the arts and music Does that help with your inspiration as well?
Speaker 1:I think so, and I saw on your car Air Force.
Speaker 2:Right, right. Yes, so my dad was in the Air Force. Oh, awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 22 years. So moving around a lot helped me as well. That was the building blocks for who I am right now, because I was born in uh, in in Las Vegas, and we moved to England and then Maryland. Wow, what a transition yeah oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And then Okinawa, um yeah, japan, and then Texas. So, um, being exposed to all of that it was natural for me. So I was like, yeah, like, like, of course, know, everyone listens to this and listens to that, you know, and there's definitely moments that feel bigger than others. You know, like in the early 90s when I first heard Tribe, like that changed my life in 91 when Low End Theory came out. So I see, like where these moments, like the tribe moment is just as big in my mind as Prince was, because I was like, well, I can't sing but I can do this.
Speaker 1:You know I can do that Right. So yeah, so that yeah, but anyway, I was just exposed to a lot of different things and that helped me.
Speaker 2:So what drew you to?
Speaker 1:all of spoken word poetry, and how did you discover your passion for it? Uh, what keeps drawing me to it is the rhythm. Um, it really is. When I, when I write, there has to be a rhythm to it. Um, I challenge myself to write without a rhythm and it just doesn't feel uh complete to me.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh, I've got to put like you're like a metaphor, got to put a little like implied rhyme somewhere. So it's all about the rhythm for me. I don't read a lot of poetry, but I listen to a lot of it and I watch a lot of it on YouTube. And what keeps me going, I think, is well, I know it's seeing new poets.
Speaker 1:So, I host a lot of open mics and kids come to these events and they blow my mind and I'm like, wow, your bass is different from mine, but there's still a common thing that links us. And the spoken word, like you know, rhythm to it, I think, is really important to me because it's all about that music piece for me. But I knew that I would, I knew that this was a thing for me.
Speaker 1:um, I think after I started to really be more confident in my voice, got it because, as a person who stutters um I, it was hard for me when I was younger and I don't.
Speaker 2:Uh, it doesn't seem like. I mean, I've heard the poet the poem right, very articulate, doesn't seem like you. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1:But I one of the reasons, a little inside information, one of the reasons I say poets are superheroes, because I feel like now that speech impediment is my superpower. Oh wow, because even right now, this very moment, I am very I am being very careful with the words that I choose.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 1:Because, yeah, if I just sort of blurt it out, I'm going to stutter, which is completely fine, but it has helped me to be more intentional with my words, so that is very important.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, going back to you mentioned, when the kids come to the open mics I call them kids, but but yeah, so for them and you know, when they hear this particular episode and they, they, maybe they had an inclination to pick your brain about the process. This next question what does your creative process look like and what factors need to take place for you to craft and deliver a piece that is unique and unlike any of your other artwork?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so my creative process starts in the mind. For me, so the quieter that I am in my mind, that's when the door is open for inspiration to come. So whatever I can do to quiet my mind, that's the space that I need to be. I mentioned bike riding earlier, but that I know that if I'm feeling a little tense because being tensed and being stressed is part of the human experience, especially in a capitalist world so I'm like, okay, I need to open up some doors so I go on a bike ride, light some incense, listen to ambient music or listen to jazz music, like Alice Coltrane is a really, really big inspiration. So for me, it's like I do what I need to do to quiet my mind, and so that is important for me with the creative process also.
Speaker 1:This might sound funny. I think you might relate, but when I was younger I used to always just write on in notebooks, and I still have a lot of notebooks, but I had to get over this. I call it like an old man, an old man like mentality, because I'm like, oh, I'm only going to be the poet that writes. I'm like no phone is very useful.
Speaker 2:It syncs up with cutting edge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it syncs up with Dropbox and all that. So as long as I have something on me that I can create, with that, I can record what's in my thoughts that is important to me. So I never leave the house without a notebook or the phone. And there are days I leave the phone at home, but I always have a notebook with me Because, you never know, I'll speak for myself.
Speaker 1:I never know when it's going to come when a line's going to come, I'm like, oh, I have to write that down, so I just have to. If my mind is quiet and if I have something in front of me that I can record my thoughts with, that is important to me. If I'm rushing to get from here to there or whatever, it's not going to happen there, so it's when things are quieter for me.
Speaker 2:Okay, solid Youngsters. I hope you're listening Well, and my process might not be yours. Things are quieter for me.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, okay, solid Youngsters.
Speaker 1:I hope you're listening right, I hope you're listening Well, and my process might not be yours, like some people thrive off of the busyness, right right, the chaos of creation, yeah, and there is something to be said for that, and I have done a lot of that, like I'll go sit at a dive bar and sit, and then there is something about the noise around me. That's a good, um, like mental challenge to be able to write in the middle of that, but yeah, but the best stuff for me comes when I'm like at a park, you know, or something, or yeah all right.
Speaker 2:So what themes or topics do you often explore in your poetry?
Speaker 1:uh, whatever is happening in the moment. I know that's a big answer, but no, no, I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, you know there's a lot of things. I've written poems about Star Wars. I've written poems about my cat. I've written poems about gentrification. I've written poems about, you know, rights for transgender folks. I've written, you know, just poems about a lot of different things. So whatever sort of hits me in the moment I'm finding at this era right now, being a relatively new dad my daughter's four I tend to keep the traumatic things like politics or things like that out of the house, just because it brings me down. I mean, I'm obviously paying attention, right, but when I write a poem, I get into the character, I get into the topic, and when I write about racism, it's hard, like it's a hard thing, and as Black people, we hold that in our bodies, bodies, and we've held that for a long time. So I work with that. I work with that differently now, um, but yeah, so I'm focusing a lot more now on being present and finding the joy in things, because my daughter is teaching me that oh, okay, so awesome.
Speaker 2:Okay. So what and this is for you what does the future hold for spoken word poetry? How do you envision its growth and evolution in the coming years?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think it's getting a lot more fun. Um, people are I think you might ask this later or something but a lot of folks are really scared about AI and it's going to take over and I'm like, well, we are already the scary future for for somebody from the 1800s.
Speaker 2:That's crazy, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the way that we are doing art and everything is so different than what old, you know, old school folks used to do. So we are we, we work with it you know we work with it.
Speaker 1:So I'm just excited to see how people work with ai, like it could get really fun and interesting and things could happen that have never happened before. So I'm excited about it and and I think it's you know, with, uh, social media, there's so many more outlets for folks to express themselves. So I'm just excited to see where, where, where people take it, it's a very flexible and like malleable art form, right? So, yeah, yeah, so I think it's.
Speaker 2:I think it's just just going to keep getting better and better and growing and expanding and see that's, that's wild, that the you, the statement you just made, and I never realized it or heard it put like that that our present was the scary future for somebody else yeah, I mean, I mean think about it like you know, just finding out any bit of in for information.
Speaker 1:I had to go to the library when I was a kid and now you Google it. So I'm sure somebody who's like in their 70s my parents are in their 70s and they are still getting used to being able to do that and so that I'm sure like that would have been scary for somebody back in the day Like, oh whoa, you can. Just there's a thing in your pocket that you can search and find out and get a map to it like, like no need for the dewey decimal system because it's you know it's, it's right there yeah, and then throughout.
Speaker 1:Whatever technology we have, we are still here, you know, we are still here. Ai is going to be doing its thing. There's going to be two people sitting at a desk talking about 90s hip hop.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's just you we are here, you know, so yeah, okay, so, and and you mentioned, uh, your daughter already, yeah, so this next question how do you balance your roles as a father, husband and artist, and how do they come together to influence your work?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I tend to not separate them, like I really believe that it's all just a part of whatever experience this is for me, so I weave it into it all. You know, my wife is so, so supportive of all of the things that I create, because it never stops for me, all of the things that I create, cause it never stops for me, um, so it's just a part of my life, you know, as, as a dad, like you know, we write songs, you know, at the same time, and, um, my wife plays the piano. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of art, you know, happening in the house. So I don't really think of it, as you know, like I mean, that might not be what, what you, what you're asking, but that's how I uh process it is that it's, it's all one, it's not like.
Speaker 1:Oh right Now I'm going to be a poet. Now I'm going to be a dad. You know, like it's just, it's a part of it, I am the poet that happens to be a dad. I am a dad who happens to be a poet.
Speaker 1:Right, it's all of it is one. So that's how I think about it. I I've talked to a lot of folks who are like, oh, I'm doing so many things and you know like it's hard to balance it all, and I'm like, well, take some stuff off your plate. You know like it's, I know it's easy. It might be easy to, especially if you are an artist, right just to make space for what it is that you really love to do. And I am selfish when it comes to my art time like I'm, like I'm, this is, this is what I do, you know, so nothing's gonna stop me from doing that that's uh now.
Speaker 2:As a father, how are you um passing your art?
Speaker 1:to your daughter yeah, so, so she's four, she's in a lot of ways smarter than I am, so I think that she just naturally is soaking it up. You know, for me it's having giving experiences to her that I think that she would appreciate. So it's, you know, my wife and I taking her to shows. You know, like, um, we flew to Chicago a few months ago for the rehearsals for for my opera, so she was seeing opera then. So I just think taking her to things is really important and just seeing what, what happens, cause that was what my parents did for me. My dad talks a lot about. They would take me to shows and things like that.
Speaker 1:I don't have a conscious memory of it, but I know that unconsciously I was like, oh, this is cool, you know. So, um, yeah, so for me it's taking her to things like she sees a lot of poetry, events, she's seen a lot of bands play and stuff, and so I think that on on some level, she's like, oh, this is a normal life. You know like, wow, yeah, so I think that that's important. Okay for me. Welcome to the united states of addiction. In this country, your smartphone holds more meaningful moments than your memory. Here, social media is social justice and history is a hashtag for broken screens to get their fix here. Fame doesn't lead to fortune, just first world problems. Echo chambers for people at war with themselves in the United States of addiction.
Speaker 2:Now social topics of today, not even in connection with how, how those in the arts would would view or observe our current state in society in relation to societal and cultural bias in our nation's current economic woes. Which of your spoken word pieces would directly address and connect to the issues faced by the African-American community alone?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've written probably hundreds on that, on that topic, so I have a lot, a lot of poems about. I feel is important as an artist is you know we don't or we are free to say what we want. As as an artist, you know so, I always say I'm like, well, as long as the microphone is on, I'm going to speak, you know so, and it is hard to not look at what is happening. You know, um, no matter how far we get, how things change, whether it's, uh, you know, policies, things like that, what is built into the American system is, uh, yeah, just this discrimination, right, um, so that is built into the system, like we were built on that. So it is up to us to, in my opinion, to put it out in a way that makes people feel it to. You know, not just know it, you know, even somebody who I don't know why, but even if somebody would disagree with, oh, like you know, there's no, you know, racism going on Right right.
Speaker 1:They might disagree with it, and then they might look at a newscast or something and be like, oh yeah, this is just trash or whatever. But I think if they hear it as a poem, or if they hear it as a song or see an opera or something like that is when I think it really can get in, you know, and be like oh yeah, this is. This really affects people on an emotional level, on a spiritual level. It affects us in so many different ways.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And sometimes people don't want to hear it a certain way, but if, but, if I say it in a poem and it's like, oh, like I've never heard it said that way.
Speaker 2:That's, that's how it is, you know so yeah.
Speaker 1:So I mean that's how I approach it. I have a poem about gentrification, like I have a lot of poems about that, but I have one poem about that specifically that talks about the metaphor of if you think of black peep people as like a field of flowers and if you pick one of the flowers it will affect the whole thing. So just thinking about it that way, and then this metaphor of people like walking on us, things like things like that, so if you know, if I say it that way, that gets one reaction.
Speaker 2:If I say it, if I say it another way, like gentrification is affecting black folks, you know it hits people differently yeah, I understand, yeah, so it's it is important for me to um, I don't, you know, and it's not like I am, I need to talk down to anyone or pretty it up, but I just think that that's how I interpret things right so I mean, the funny thing is, like, even like with comedians, yeah, you turn the tv on, you have, yeah, like so much material that you can write for or write from, or it's just the world is as the world is, and if you don't say anything about it, then I think it's, and you have a talent to express and, like you said, deliver it to people in a way that's more palatable to their ear, then I think you're being irresponsible with your talent yeah, yeah, you know, if you don't feel that, yeah, so yeah, and I and I also said to that as well, I was just thinking about, like, if I were a poet who just wrote about that, then that would be one thing Right.
Speaker 1:But I think that it is important to realize that there is joy. Like, in the middle of so many things that we've been through as black people, we have found joy through it all. Right, that we've been through as black people, we have found joy through it all. And that is so. I mean, you know, you think about, I think about a lot like in enslaved Africans, the existence that they were forced into, and think about all that they brought to this culture music, like they invented the banjo, so like bluegrass music, like, even with throughout all of that, we are still able to find joy, and I think that's a superpower of of black folks and I think that that scares some white people oh, like it's like, no matter how much y'all do we're still gonna like, we're still you know, and I mean it's, it's, it's really it is unfortunate, but you know, like I said, it's built into the american system, like that is what it is.
Speaker 1:So, um, and I don't see anybody changing that anytime soon, so at least not in the next four years or whatever.
Speaker 2:Anyway, okay, so can you share a memorable experience or performance or audience response that has resonated the most with you in relation to the delivery of that kind of info?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, ok, so one of the things that just came to my mind was so, I'm in schools a lot. Mind was um, so I'm in schools a lot, so I do a lot of workshops and talk to students and I read some poetry about racism. To some, I think it was eighth graders and there was a student that wrote me through instagram and said he was. He said I was always an all lives matter type of kid, and then I read your poem and now I realize why that could be seen as dangerous to some folks. So that that was a thing that came to me and I was like, okay, if somebody young is able to see that differently, that means a lot to me.
Speaker 1:Um, and also, I've just had experiences with when I'm talking about um, grief, you know, I remember there was a guy that came up to me and he asked for a copy of one of my poems that I wrote about a friend who had passed away. And he's like I had a friend that just passed away and I haven't been able to express how I feel about it. Can I have a copy of this poem? And I was like, yes, you know. So things like that. I feel like that's why I take myself sort of the ego out of it, cause a lot of times like it just comes and I get it out on paper and like of course that energy should be shared and if it touches somebody else then they can feel like they wrote it too and I feel like that's a good thing to operate from, a good place to operate from.
Speaker 2:So and what's beautiful about your craft is someone that would never have a connection to this type of platform, right? Um, you could easily create a fan, as you just mentioned, with somebody who does not have the ability to express themselves, yeah, yeah in the way that they would like to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's you know, so put it in the way that they would like to, because I feel like people have that ability, but I don't blame folks for not expressing themselves through this, because there's so many things going on in the world. We're in a capitalist world, so it's like you have to do more, do more, do more, and I think poetry is the art of like take a nap and like a rest you know, look at your life and chill, you know.
Speaker 1:So I think that it is important for a lot of people, you know, and it does that for me. When I hear a good poem, I'm just like thank you. You know, like I needed that because I can get caught up in doing, doing, doing.
Speaker 2:So art and activism. Do you consider them strange bedfellows, or are they, you know? Are they holding hands?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think they're holding hands.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that if you create art like you literally have the ability to do whatever you want. I mean, especially now there's so many tools to do stuff. You know, like I, I'm I'm going to try to challenge myself to do an album all on my phone. I'm like, oh, that would be cool, but anyway. But I just feel like art has the tools to be heard more now. Just the creation of art is a form, is a form of activism, because it's not within the confines of consumerism or capitalism. You're just making something, you know.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome. Ok, so, as someone deeply connected to both traditional and contemporary art forms, how do you see the evolution of artistic expression in the current digital age? You hit on it a little bit earlier.
Speaker 1:Well, I think and I hope, does a chapter of it, or like the first chapter, and then you write a response chapter things like that. So I think that it's. I think people are going to play with it in ways like that. Like, for instance, I had an idea for a show where, like, a poet gets on stage and then they read a poem, they read two poems and the audience has to guess which one is AI and which one you know. So things like that. I think that you know, instead of being like oh it's going to take over.
Speaker 1:I'm like, well, let's, let's just play with it, like let's see, see what can happen. I do think that thousands of years from now, you know, it will probably be able to make itself, and that's a whole different conversation and that feels like like a fearful thing to me. But I feel like at its current state, humans still have to input the thing to make it happen.
Speaker 2:Right, right.
Speaker 1:So it's still a human thing, you know. I mean the technology is wild. I mean I still can't believe that you can like. I'm glad that I'm not in school right now, because I would be like history paper, just you know, and that's what my wife's dealing with right now.
Speaker 2:OK, oh wow, to determine when you give a student the prompt, did they just take the prompt and plug it in to say whatever chat, ai or GPT bot that's out there? They took the prompt and plugged it in and then it spit out you know a paper, because now you can even tell it. Well, add a couple of discrepancies and mistakes and put it in my voice and yeah, it's just. It's crazy, but I agree with you. You still have to be able to tell AI what to do, and if you can't think outside of the box and create the prompt that's necessary to give you your end product, it's not going to work for you.
Speaker 2:I'm not scared of AI either? Yeah, I think it's not gonna work for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm not scared of ai. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's. I think it's a thing, yeah right right.
Speaker 1:My voice box is a record player stuck on a loop, locked inside a soundproof room. Sometimes I am the only one who hears the dense echo of my vibrato, and other times I open my mouth and everyone around me knows that my tongue is a muscle too weak to lift the weight of sound. When I was younger, a speech therapist told me the key to unlocking the melody was in my mind, but I told him that depression is tone deaf and there is no way to move the needle without hearing a rhythmic, negative voice spinning inside my head.
Speaker 2:Man, I'm telling you it's hard for me to believe that you, you know you had an issue with with that the speech impediment of stuttering.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it used to in my young mind. It used to define me. I'm like, oh, I'm just the kid that stutters, I can't talk to girls, and things like that. And then in my, you know, adult mind I'm like, oh, that was there so I could write, you know, because when I wrote, I could say anything that I wanted to in any way that I wanted to say, anything that I want it to in any way that I want it to. But it yeah, I've been working on it constantly and I feel really good where I am at, and also when I'm on stage now, or if I'm in front of a classroom, like yesterday, I was like, oh, you all are going to probably hear me stutter at some point, and that is going to be okay, because in the past I used to apologize for it With stutter.
Speaker 1:I'm like'm like sorry, you know, but I'm like no man, like that's a part of me, like just let that just have. Yeah, invite that that part of you over for tea, you know. Like just saying, hang out instead of trying to push it away, right, um, but there was a student yesterday who said she said that her uncle stutters a lot and she goes. I'm'm going to talk to him because he, you know, and I totally understand that he was, he pushes it away and everything, and I get it, because the culture doesn't really support that. Or whenever there's a person who stutters, it's always like a pig. Or even Star Wars I love it. They had that weird character in the Last Jedi. I forget Benicio Del Toro's character.
Speaker 2:It was just a weird character, the turncoat right. Yeah, yeah, for them to add that that was an issue that he had with speaking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it was a weird thing. I feel like Hollywood really steers a lot of our awareness, unfortunately. So I'm looking forward to just normalizing that experience. But yeah, that was and that is a part of me. I've done, I've done a lot of therapy, I've done a lot of meditation around it. So I feel good where I'm at because, like I said, I invite that version of myself over for tea. It also like I'm there 82 of the time, so I feel good about it. But there are times, there are definitely times it'll happen later today, it'll happen, you know, in the future where, like it's, it locks my throat, like it's, it's just hard to get words out, okay, and it's an uncomfortable thing for people because they just they aren't used to it, you know right, well, and, and you know it's kind of like the um, you know, as you said, it's, it's more for their comfort yeah right, they feel like you and and that's why I'm glad you brought up where you said you used to apologize for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know and I'm glad you see up where you said you used to apologize for it? Yeah, yeah, you know, and I'm glad you see, now that you know you don't have to, yeah, no.
Speaker 1:It's like oh yeah, that's, that's there too. Ok, you know. Like that's just how I think about it. I'm like OK, there it is again, you know, right, right, so that's that.
Speaker 2:So, in that same vein, how has your craft helped you in that personal growth, healing and self-discovery?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, the greatest gift that was given to me was the realization that I could make art, you know. So that has really helped me, and I still make a lot of stuff for myself, like songs and things that I only hear, and I feel like it's a form of therapy, like self-care.
Speaker 1:It's almost like you doing this that's a space where I can really just experiment, so it has really helped me to look at things differently when we talk about social issues as well. When I can write about it, it helps me to process it awesome so that's, it's been the greatest. Uh, teacher, I would say for me is that yeah yeah, my art all right.
Speaker 2:So earlier you mentioned uh you do listen to other uh spoken word poets. Are there any that have inspired or influenced your work?
Speaker 1:yeah, I so. Currently I am very much influenced by the people who come out to our open mics. Uh, there's a lot of poets who are like this is my first time on the mic and then they get up and just like kill us. I mean it's just an amazing experience and there is younger poets.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of older poets as well who come to those open mics, and I'm inspired by that, right, um, I'm also inspired by, uh, andrea gibson okay, they are absolutely fantastic. I brought them to town in 2019. Um, what was cool was uh being able to meet them and just see how that so they do a lot of poetry with with music as well, and there's just there's these long poems that are all done, you know, from the head, and it's amazing.
Speaker 1:There's another poet Aja Monet is amazing as well, and Aja um put out an album last year that I'm forgetting the name of right now, but I have it on record and it's a jazz spoken word album and it's fantastic and. Amanda Gorman who did the presidential inauguration poem, and I have to say this, I've said this 3,000 times to schools but I tried to bring her to town, to Charleston, and she could only do a Zoom reading and guess what her fee was.
Speaker 2:What.
Speaker 1:No, just guess.
Speaker 2:For somebody who's done at that level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she'd done the presidential inauguration, she did a poem during the Super Bowl. Once too, I would say what 20,000, 25,000? 100,000.
Speaker 2:What For a Zoom call? Yeah, the call. She's not live A.
Speaker 1:Zoom call yeah.
Speaker 2:They had to pay her. Well, you got to pay her work.
Speaker 1:I mean, I wasn't able to do that because if I could, if I could do that. You know, um, but yeah, so that's, that's great, but um, that was a very inspirational thing, so I I reached out to her. You know management that they told me that over the phone and I'm like can you email that to me, because I just want to scream I want to make a screenshot and I just want to make sure that I heard it correctly. But yeah, but this whole idea of a starving artist, like she's eating very well.
Speaker 2:It's out the window. I know.
Speaker 1:I am eating. Well, wow, I'm not getting paid near that, but like it's just nice to know that that is out there.
Speaker 2:And you say you let some of the younger artists know that you tell them that story all the time yeah.
Speaker 1:I bet their reactions are like what are you crazy? I'm like that is crazy and somebody is able to pay that. Not me, but the Super Bowl can Wow.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, with that. You just mentioned the Super Bowl Spoken word. Poetry often thrives in a live performance setting. How do you adapt your poetry for different audiences or venues?
Speaker 1:yeah, so, uh, wow, that could be a long answer, so it depends on the venue. So, if I'm in a more experimental space, um, like, there's a space in north charlest called Tua Lingua, which is a beautiful space. It's an old house that was transformed into an art studio sort of space and that space lends itself for experimentation. So when I do my electronic shows there I just make it as weird as I can and it's fun. But I probably wouldn't do that at the music hall. So I've done shows at the music hall.
Speaker 1:So I've done shows at the music hall. So it's just uh, yeah, it's almost accords to the space and what the audience is like, and a lot of times I feed off of the energy of the audience and I've done shows at the library, so I don't think I'm going to do like harsh electronics at the library, you know. I might do like sort of like chill hop at the library, but it's nice to have different things that I could go to you know, to adapt to the space.
Speaker 2:OK, so how would you describe the connection between spoken word poet and the hip hop coach MC? Are you considered the first cousin or are you one in? The same just without the beats.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I believe it's one in the same. Some people don't think that, and that's fine, but I think that, yeah, if you read the lyrics to to like, yeah, yeah, de La's second album, de La Soul, is Dead was a big turning point for me because it was so weird and it was so poetic and just like abstract but and it made me want to find out what the references were and all that they would say all types of things like oodles of o's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what are you like talking about? Like just say, don't you know, don't donuts, right, right, but it's so interesting. I'm like, oh, that was a choice. They could have said you know donuts, but they said oodles of oh. So I'm like, oh, there's a different way to say a thing, right? So, um, yeah, poets are using, you know, those same techniques.
Speaker 1:You know, I could easily just have a poem where I'm like stuttering is hard, but if I'm like, oh, my voice is like a record player stuck on a loop, you know like yeah, so different ways of saying it. Yeah, there's different ways of saying something. In a simple statement said in a creative way.
Speaker 1:That's what hip hop does. And I mean I am definitely of the 90s, you know era and I will be like, oh yeah, the 90s were the best. But I've been listening to a lot of newer stuff and I'm like, oh, this is good too, you know so it's like, and it's still. It's just like evolving, it's different, but it's evolving.
Speaker 2:It's poetry yeah, it's meant to be, and I don't even want to just say the hip hop culture in general. I think you hit it on the head because hip hop is poetry, poetry is hip hop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know. So evolution has to take place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely has to, and I find myself being really interested in what people are listening to now, and it might not be for me, but I'm like, oh, this is touching people the way that tribe touched me, or the way that the roots touched me, you know, that was like a big moment for me as well.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, yeah but, but I but I think that hip-hop and and, yeah, poetry are kind of the same really I'm gonna tell you what, um, what really for me, what really sets your poetry off into a different direction than what I'm used to listening to when it comes to spoken word poetry, is your cadence, word intonation, your delivery is, you know, as an MC, it feels like I said man, maybe he was a hip hop artist and MC and then he this was just one of the avenues that he went off and it's just for me, your delivery is just like an MC and that's why I wanted to ask that question you know prior, because I would consider you one in the same.
Speaker 2:Oh, right on, thank you, you know. So, thank you. When you, when you look at it, like many spoken word poets, incorporate elements of hip-hop, such as rhythm, wordplay and storytelling, in their performances, how do you personally blend these elements into your work?
Speaker 1:yeah, so, um, yeah, it goes back to that rhythm piece. I so quentin baxter is the drummer on a lot of the albums that I've done, and and Quentin has won two Grammys now with Ranky Tinky and he was telling me it was funny because we're brothers and the way that we approached our thing was I would write a poem and he would do the music over it. And he was like man, you already wrote the rhythm.
Speaker 2:That's what I was trying to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and I was like oh, I'm not consciously doing that but, it's, but there is. So I always talk to students about, um, oh yeah, repetition is a good form for, for poetry is sort of like the chorus of the poem, and whenever I do that, I think about the rhythm, I think about syllables Like I think, about beats like all of that stuff.
Speaker 1:Not every poem is like that, but I would say like 72.8% of my poems are that Like it's. You're like, oh yeah, there goes Marcus's thing. You know that is his, his. You know rhythm. I'm challenging myself now with some different forms, um, in opera, and I know we'll talk about that but, um, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's all about that, that rhythm, and I'm always thinking about how can a poem not just be on paper, like, how can the poem be a song? How can it be a visual piece? How can it be, you know, like, uh, you like a video, how? Right, you know there there's all types of ways that the poem can play, so yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:And then last question in this segment, and this is a good one, uh, because you already named two groups that are also in, like my top. Yeah, right, on my top. So name an emce MC that you feel would make a prolific spoken word poet if they drop the beats and switch their verbal wheelhouse.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow See, we could go on. The first person that comes to mind is Rakim. The first one that comes to mind, um is is is rakim the first one that comes to mind, just because, yeah, I mean what? What can I say about? Yeah, I mean it was just, he is still still here with us, just so smooth like um and fast, and and it's always on the beat and then, like, what he's saying in the third verse is referencing the first thing and you're still trying to figure out the first verse.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's just so much, yeah, yeah, yeah. I also love Saba, who's from Chicago, and he does amazing work. He had an album called Care For Me that came out in 2018, I think, and that right that that record is. It's just, there's so much emotion in it, right, right, um, he talks about, like, fighting himself to get out of bed and like, yeah, and like he doesn't want to fight in anymore like it's just right right yeah, it's great um and um, you know.
Speaker 1:Another mc that comes to mind is um is uh pasta noose from dayla and ladybug mecca. Oh my planet, okay, okay yeah, you can kind of hear that in her too, so yeah, there's, yeah, pasta noose, you know, and and I was friends with Dave so it was so wild to be close to them, but close to him, but yeah, pasta Noose was the one I studied Like I still study a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, his rhyme schemes are like Incantation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, everything I wonder where you know we live. It's called the Projects. I mean, he's just like everything.
Speaker 2:It's just perfect, it's just perfect. I got a big butt. My grandma Big butt Still here. I try to sit down in my chair but my butt's hanging out everywhere. I got a big butt.
Speaker 1:I'm going to leave that in there too. Yeah, please.
Speaker 2:I got a big butt man tell me about that.
Speaker 1:Well, first of all, that's the best thing I've ever done. That was the first thing I ever put on tape. So yeah, I have still Probably seven or eight cassette tapes, 90-minute cassette tapes Of just songs like that, just me beatboxing, playing on the you know casio singing about chicken, like I had a song about yeah, the chicken fell out of out of the oven and ants were crawling on it and I had to hide this loop. Anyway, I just, I haven't changed, um, so I've always just created stuff.
Speaker 1:So yeah, but that that was in the mid 80s and all of that style I mean, you could definitely hear that style like Run DMC. All that stuff was like was like embedded in my brain, you know, and then I was trying to sing on some songs and all that. Yeah, it's just, it's fun to listen to that.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and you know you listen to it, and then you listen to some of the stuff that you do. Now you have a definitive starting point that shows you had a love for creation back then. Yeah, you know. So I mean I was, I was impressed, you know, it was just it's because because we all have that starting point right, but I think yours showed that there would be greatness.
Speaker 1:I think you know what I'm saying. Well, I'm not sure that big butt was, but think about it.
Speaker 2:Think about when you put that out back then you know what I'm saying. It was just you had, because you mentioned Casio, the Casio SK-1 with the orange pads.
Speaker 1:Yeah, SK-1. I still have it, you know.
Speaker 2:so it's just everybody thought they were a hip-hop star if you owned one of those. So, yeah, that was solid for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what's funny. Yeah, that was solid for me. Yeah, you know what's funny? My dad was telling me that, because I don't remember this. But my dad would tell me that we would go to church and I would come home and play the melodies from the church on the keyboard, you know. So that was when my parents were like, oh, he might really want to do this thing. Right, right, right. So that was, yeah, that's cool, and I feel like that's a shared experience among black folks too. Like you know, the church is a really big um thing for us, so, okay, so, so keen on that.
Speaker 1:What you said about your parents, they were like really a catalyst for you then, yeah, yeah oh, yeah, yeah, yeah they are, they are still still here with us and and, yeah, and then they are, you know, coming to my opera next, next week and stuff so, yeah, yeah, they've always supported the work.
Speaker 2:They might not have understood all of it, and I don't know that I understand a lot of it but you know, but I never got the.
Speaker 1:Oh, this is weird or something because it definitely is weird, like there's a lot of stuff I make. Now I'm like I just needed to get that out you know, I don't necessarily need folks to listen to it I just needed to scream into a microphone, you know.
Speaker 2:But okay, so I, I, when reading your bio, you know, uh, looking at the various skill sets, we're gonna delve into your, your music background yes, yeah all right. So, and this seems incredible to me, so I'm going to ask this, ask the question with 40 albums of electronic music under your belt, only 40. Yeah, like, where do you go to continue to find creative inspiration?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it goes back to that quiet mind. It's less of a place right, physical place and more of a mental space. So, but also um I know I've used this word a lot play, but um, that's what it feels like to me, like I've got these small synthesizers that can fit in my bag and things like that, and it's just like I'm like okay, I'm just gonna go to the park today and just make a beat and sample the birds and you know, like it's just fun to play with um, so it's, it's, it's experimentation and play.
Speaker 1:So that's what keeps me going. Um, and also it's just um. It's not as hard as it used to be to make things Like when I'm making Big Butt. You know, I had to have the big boom boom box. I had to have a blank tape. I had to make sure I'm not taping over something you know, and now it's just like you know, just hit one button on your phone and it's right there.
Speaker 1:So I'm like oh, wow, like if that, if I had this when I was a kid like 80, 80 um albums, so so, yeah, so it's just um, using the tools that are around me, and I I'm definitely aware that I can speak about this from a privileged sense because I work for myself. There's folks who have know, like you have to do like a nine to five job and you have, you know, a lot of things that you need to do, and I honor that. But I also know that, no matter how busy I get, I schedule time to do things. Like like I tell this to students a lot, I'm like I schedule naps in in in my phone, like I schedule personal days to just work on stuff. You know, like I I put that in my phone so that I can hold myself to it when that day comes and a client for a website might want to meet and I'm like, nope, I'm busy.
Speaker 1:Like like bro, like you know, like yeah, yeah, you have to do that. As an artist, I feel like you have to do that because there's so many things that you could be doing, you know so many things you could be watching or whatever.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, in my phone I'm like this is going to be a writing day. This is going to be a day that I make, you know, some music, make, um, you know some music. So, um, yeah, so it's being intentional with that, okay, because people make time for so many things like we make time to scroll on our phones, we make time to brush our teeth, we make time to, you know, cut the ground. I mean, there's so many things that we do exactly, and I make time to make music, you know and so.
Speaker 2:so being intentional are you? You're more fruitful when you know, with a good end product at that point versus OK, now I got to do something on the fly because it's not programmed into, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, I think the process varies, but I think that it's. I know that I feel better about the work when I'm really intentional with it and there is a different process when it is something for somebody else Like I get a lot of commissions to write different poems and stuff like that All right.
Speaker 2:So music we know. Check Spoken word poet, check Poet laureate for the first one for Charleston. South Carolina, Charleston yeah, check your original opera. Yeah, opera. Obviously, it will be quite an experience and a huge achievement. What inspired you to venture into this genre and what are, or were, some of the challenges you faced?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm learning this world a lot, so I will do my best to condense this. But so what was cool about the internet? You know, like I put a lot of stuff on my website and on YouTube and things like that, so I'm easily searchable and I have a lot of content. So there was a black opera composer, black classical composer from Chicago named Sean, who reached out to me because he saw a thing on on on YouTube and he said hey, like I'm writing an album for a black opera singer and this is still considered like a new thing in opera, cause there's not not a lot of black folks. I mean, as far as I know it's, it is considered a white world.
Speaker 1:So this is going to be a black opera singer singing songs written by black folks and the music was done by a black composer, right? So I said, hell, yeah, you know I'm going to do that. So we signed the contract and did it all. And then my dad calls me and he's like bro, I heard your name on NPR and I was like what? And he goes yeah, you have that project that you did. It's blowing up. So the singer his name is Will Liverman and he is playing Malcolm X on Broadway, like I mean he's like yeah, so I didn't yell at him at the Met.
Speaker 1:You know, I think he is playing Malcolm X on Broadway. What, yeah? So I didn't yell at the Met I think, but he's huge.
Speaker 1:So New York Times did a story on him, Washington Post did a story on him. This album gets nominated for a Grammy and whenever a story is written they talk about the poem that I wrote. They're like oh, this album's great and track five, written by Marcus, is one of the you know, Wow. So I started to get more opportunities. So Sean and I are really close. So Sean and I collaborated on another opera work for the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in DC.
Speaker 1:So, I wrote an opera about that and then after that I was like you know what? I should probably really lean into this stuff a lot. One, there's a lot of money in it. Two, it's fun because I get to travel wherever I write an opera. So I reached out to an opera agency. I said, hey, I've done this thing. Hey, look, there goes a link to my name on Washington Post so so. So now I'm represented by an opera agency, so they shot my name around basically. So I got the Chicago gig through that. So I interviewed for it and it's been a lovely experience.
Speaker 1:I've learned a lot because so you know how we are with old school hip-hop there are people like that with opera and their references, like they are telling me about the tribe called quest of opera.
Speaker 2:You know and I'm like, okay, I don't know any of these names, but it's all they're saying. Listen to this.
Speaker 1:So you could well like it's. It's just yeah, yeah, yeah, some of that and references and stuff. So I'm taking notes and I'm like I don't know anything about you know, but it's been cool to step into that world. So I wrote an opera for the Chicago opera theater. That's yeah, yeah, premiering next week, which is so wild to think about, and yeah, and it was a really fun experience. A lot of it was done over zoom. So I wrote you know the text, and then the the composer, jillian did, did, yeah, the music for it. Okay, so, yeah, it was. It's. It's a great, great, yeah, collaboration and it's about a mother and a daughter who talked to objects and objects can talk back to them and there's some mental health stuff that happens, uh, throughout it.
Speaker 2:But okay, now is the show next. You said it's next week, and what date is that again?
Speaker 1:well, it's april 27th, you get this right this will air after, but yeah yeah, um, but the goal is for it to be shown in other other cities. Okay, so once it's shown um in in in chicago. Once it's shown there, um other houses will will pick it up. Yeah, yeah, so that's been cool. I'm learning a lot through it, but it's fun for me to meet somebody new and they're like what do you do? I'm like I write operas you know. And again to be able to say that looking at me, they're like what?
Speaker 2:So Renaissance man, ladies and gentlemen, that's what I'm saying. You know how? How often can you sit across the table from somebody that says, hey, I just wrote an opera and hey, guess what it's going to be showing at this location, not in my backyard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's actually going to be in an opera house yeah, chicago, yes, that's solid, that's solid.
Speaker 2:All right. What advice would you give to an aspiring spoken word poet who are just looking to find their voice and make an impact through their poetry?
Speaker 1:Yeah, two things that I would say. Well, I guess two things that come to mind and I'll come up with a better answer when I'm off the mic, I'm sure but the first thing is to just be here now, just honor who you are now, and who that might be might not be what you think it is, you know because, like so, for instance, for me, you know, something traumatic will happen in the news, and sometimes I'll be like, oh, I have to write a poem about this, you know, and sometimes the poem just isn't there, so I'm just like no, I need to write a happy poem right now, and I'll be able to process that other stuff, you know, later. So, I just honor, you know where you are in the process, but also, um, do things for yourself, not for other people, and that and that means literally like write a whole book that only you read you know what I mean like you can do that.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people think I'm gonna write this book and not many folks are going to, you know, like it or whatever, and I'm like they might not you know, and that's cool, but also yeah, but like I think it's, it's cool for me, like, if you know, whenever I pass on, y'all are going to look at my Dropbox and see like just folders and folders of stuff and that is the exercise for me to sharpen my voice. So I think that that's important and it's hard, because it's hard to not share stuff because it's so easy to share and you get that dopamine fix when somebody likes the poem or something on Instagram. But I think it's cool to just do stuff for yourself and I think that you will instinctively know when it's the right time to really share. But writing stuff for yourself, staying in your head a bit, sharpens your voice so that when you are in front of people, you are more confident about what you are coming at them with.
Speaker 2:Now. I don't know if I asked it earlier, but I'm going to ask it now. I don't know if I asked it earlier, but I'm going to ask it now. Talk about your connection with youth poets and the programs you have in the schools now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is soul work for me. I always walk away from that feeling good, but I visit schools often, so probably average two schools per week.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I travel. Wow, yeah, yeah. So I like I travel. I go into classrooms. Sometimes I do school wide presentations, sometimes I just talk to like two students, sometimes I do whole classrooms, but it's usually reminding them that they are creative beings I particularly love, I love all my students, but I particularly love seeing brown-faced um students because I think there is a real connection. That happens when they see me up there being like oh yeah, like I'm, I'm on a grammy nominated thing and I wrote a song called big butt. You know, like, like, if I can do it, you, you can do it too, you know.
Speaker 1:I'm not special in the fact that I can do this. So it's reminding them that they can be artists full time, right, but also reminding them that they are creative beings, because I don't think the school system necessarily nurtures that. I mean, it definitely does in a lot of ways, but you know, you're graded on so many things. You should just be able to just write what you want or just sing whatever you want to sing or make whatever beat you want to make, and just doing it should be enough. So that's what I bring to it. I'm just like, yeah, y'all just write about this. Of course I guide them through things, but it's pretty cool what happens and especially for that age, having the outlet I is a healthy thing, because a lot of students, especially in like eighth grade or so, they're going through so many things right now.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's the grade right there I mean, that is a tough experience. Like it's your last year at the top of the totem pole and then you start all over in the ninth grade.
Speaker 1:You start all over again and then you're at the bottom and then you're getting used to your body. I mean, there's just so many things. So I think you know poetry making art is a good outlet for folks to express themselves Awesome.
Speaker 2:Okay. So before we hit the last question, Each episode I listen to sending questions about previous shows and I normally air them on that current episode. This time, however, I took a different approach and I went to various establishments within the Lowcountry and I asked random people to listen to one of the three pieces you heard from our guests today. They were then tasked with creating a question for me to ask our guests with the selected question, designating them the winner of our episode prize pack, which in this case will be the standard Dirty Six Chamber Pack, along with a download link to your book. Black Music Is in ebook. Here's the winning question from Awesome Cook and resident of Somerville, South Carolina, Grace W Grace. I told you I wasn't going to say your last name and shout out to Joanne's Fabrics for not kicking me out of the store, thinking I was a solicitor or something.
Speaker 1:Pay this bill. That's right.
Speaker 2:I asked about 15 different people and her question stood out the most to me. So she's my winner. And, marcus, I must warn you, as an avid cook, I guess she wanted to give her question a cooking theme. Okay, so, and that, and her question really stood out to me out of the 15 that I asked, I said I got it. This is the winner. As soon as I heard it, yeah, okay. So here's her question again. From Grace W of Somerville, south Carolina. She says if you were to create a poetry inspired dish for any Charleston South Carolina food festival, what would you name it? Charleston, south Carolina Food Festival, what would you name it and what would your ingredient measurements be for creativity, inspiration and overall message?
Speaker 2:that's a crazy question, right, that is a beautiful in my mind I said you know what I gotta keep asking people. But Grace has already won a poetry inspired dish?
Speaker 1:wow, well, uh, who? I would say? Thank you for that question, grace. So the first thing that come to mind I'll just speak that there's no wrong answer. Uh, first thing that came to mind was my grandmother's pound cake. Um, so my family is from Orangeburg, south Carolina Shout out Orangeburg and my grandma, georgia May, made the best pound cake. Obviously it's emotion, but I'm like that's easily the best pound cake of all time. There we go, and I would love to recreate that and name it after my grandma I wrote about I wrote a poem about that too um, just about her and being around the, around the kitchen, but it would be inspired by my grandma's pound cake okay um ingredients.
Speaker 2:I don't really know what she's saying is and I had to ask her again. I said I need you to break it down to me so I'll be able to ask the question correctly. She's saying if you could put a percentage or an amount, a measurement amount, on creativity, would it be half of the, you know, a half teaspoon or, uh, two cups of creativity? And so she said creativity, inspiration and message. What would the measurements be? Wow, okay, she's a cook.
Speaker 1:I mean, there is an art to that and my brain is like how does microwave? You know that is my cooking. So I really don't know how to answer that. I would just say that I know that I would just be really inspired by, by grandma and she didn't necessarily follow a recipe, you know, like she, she just kind of figured it out, you know, and I remember just just, you know, watching her cook and it would just be like she would just put stuff in and taste it. Put it in and taste it. So that was that's what a lot of my music kind of feels like, especially, yeah, the the um, experimental stuff. I just like experiment with stuff a lot, right, um, yeah, so I don't know no, that, actually that is.
Speaker 1:That is the answer that's a great answer because I think we all relate to.
Speaker 2:My grandmother didn't follow. No, yeah, she just knew. And if it was, let me throw in a, a pinch or a punch or whatever. Put your foot in. You know that's that's what she did, so I think that's that's grace. I hope he answered that question for you. He answered it for me, but you're gonna get, like I said, the the prize pack and an e-book download link to. In fact, I'm asking Black Music Is Tell us about that before we close out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love that book. So I put that book out in 2021. It's called Black Music Is, and I wrote a poem about all the different genres that Black folk invented. So I write about the blues, I write about country music, I wrote about hip-hop, rock, and within each genre I mentioned some, some artists that you might not know, that some folks might not know.
Speaker 1:So I wrote about, uh, sister rosetta tharp, I wrote about alice coltrane, uh, makaya mcraven, gus cannon like there's a lot of black artists who do a lot of great things that folks might not know about okay um, I tried to stay away from popular artists but I did put prints in there because because you have to put prints in there um, but, but, but, yeah, but it is a full color book for all ages, and a friend of mine, nathan, did the artwork for it. That's at local libraries and I gave 150 copies of those to schools around.
Speaker 2:Solid, solid.
Speaker 1:That was a fun project and I have a QR code in the book that links to a playlist to some of the songs as well.
Speaker 2:OK, so, lastly, this is the part of the show where I want to give you the opportunity to speak to those that are your inspiration. Oh, yeah, right, give any shout outs and tell us about any upcoming projects on the horizon. So I'm going to turn to final question. The floor is yours.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, thank you, and thank you for this, for this conversation. I tend to shy away from things like this. I don't do a lot of podcasts, but something led me to this.
Speaker 2:So I appreciate that so.
Speaker 1:I followed that voice. Obviously, I got to say thank you to my cat, mr Wu, and also my wife and my daughter. Thank you all. And yes, I have a show coming up. Obviously, the opera is coming up soon, but on May 4th.
Speaker 1:May the 4th, oh wow, there is a great day yeah, there is another opera that's happening, um, here in town. It's called singers and stanzas, where there's four poets who are going to be doing spoken word and then an opera singer is going to sing those words after that, and that's at Dock Street Theater.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I am in the process of publishing little books, so it's one poem each. I'm going to call them little like pocket poems, okay, so yeah, so those will be out soon, and I'm working on three albums at the moment. Right now, so one is a new band that I started. It's sort of experimental drone, sort of spoken word stuff. I'm working on an album called Dust, kick and Snare, so it's all about sort of like 90s sounding hip-hop beats, and I'm also doing an ambient album right now too. Um, and I'm sleeping a lot.
Speaker 2:I promise you I'm sleeping a lot yeah, those, those program naps yeah, oh, yeah you appreciate them when you get to the, to the age we are yeah, it's very important yeah, tell us where we can find some of your stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you will get a kick out of this. You can go to theblackjedicom, so theblackjedicom, Not blackjedicom but theblackjedicom. But also, yeah, that just goes to marcusamakercom. I also set up charlestonpoetcom. So easy. I also set up Charleston poetcom so easy way to get in there, Cause I realized some folks they might misspell my last name. So I'm like Charleston poetcom.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Okay, Um, but, but also, um, I host a bunch of open mics around town. So, uh, on Instagram we're at free verse poets on Instagram, but Instagram, we're at Free Verse Poets on Instagram. You can also go to charlestonpoetscom to find that info. But yeah, but we actually have an open mic in Somerville at Public Works Arts Center.
Speaker 2:Oh, right off of off the main street, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, every every other month, yeah, yeah. So our next one is in June. We just did, did one last week.
Speaker 2:So you can count me and the wife there. We'll be there, please, brian.
Speaker 1:We'll be there.
Speaker 2:All right. So, man, I I want to thank you. Yeah, yeah, thank you again Listening to your poems and then getting you here. I didn't want a fanboy too hard, right, listening to your poems and then getting you here. I didn't want to fanboy too hard, right. But I think the connection you have to your craft and the connection you have to you know your growth from from the big butt era.
Speaker 1:The best era yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, to now there's definitely somebody out there that's that's going to connect. You know, and I wish I knew what next school you would be in. You know, I don't know how does that happen for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I schedule it out. Schedule it out. Teachers contact me and then I schedule. But yeah, I have a bunch of things happening. It's all in my calendar. But yeah yeah, I'm in a lot of schools.
Speaker 2:So, folks, what's going to happen is when you listen to the episode, I want you to make sure you check my liner notes. I will have the links typed out, clickable, ready for you to go to not only his sites but to any of his upcoming shows, venues, so on and so forth. Hey, this was great to have, I'm going to say, marcus, he's a kindred soul and spirit for me up here, and I noticed you have a book there. Did you want to say anything about that? Or that's just your notes? Yeah, yeah, well, this is my latest book. Hold, what Makes you Whole a book there?
Speaker 1:did you want to say anything about that, or that's your, just your notes. Uh, yeah, yeah, well, this is my latest book. Uh, hold what makes you whole.
Speaker 2:It's my 10th book, the 10th book. Yeah, 10th book, all right, and uh, quick background on it yeah, so this came out last year, 2023.
Speaker 1:Um, it has, uh, I think, 70 something poems in it. Uh, the first half of the book are all new poems. The second half are older works that I rewrote. So that's been a fun thing for me to do is look back at older poems and edit them a bit, and I have. My great aunt is on the cover. She dropped her body in 2020, but she was 96, um and she was um a poet too that's awesome, aunt ruth yeah so yeah, she is, she is on on on the cover and on the dedication page got it, but anyway all right, solid.
Speaker 2:So thanks again listeners. Uh, it's been a great episode Again. The season two, episode two Marcus Amica, amica, all right Right. Renaissance man for the for the new culture here in Charleston, south Carolina. I'm looking forward to seeing how well his opera does and I'm in hopes of getting them back on after that so we can talk a little bit more about that in depth, because it's not every day you have an African-American writer, composer, performer of opera.
Speaker 2:Yeah so again, brother, I want to thank you. I appreciate it. And this is Ron the old man signing off. This has been the dirty six chamber podcast.
Speaker 1:When it finally happened, love sent shivers up and down my spine. It slowly made its way from doubt and darkness into beauty, as I unraveled out of fear and willingly walked into a woman's web.
